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Is it a Plate or a Bowl?
Craig asked "As a beginner, I was not only confused
about determining the difference between a plate and a bowl, but also
shapes in general."
How do you tell the difference between a plate and
a bowl? It's a seemingly simple question, yet one which throws up a grey
area for the Carnival Glass collector. The generally accepted definition
of a plate in Carnival Glass terminology is that given by the late
Marion Hartung and often referred to as the two inch rule. She wrote:
"Place the piece in question on a flat,
bare surface such as a wooden table ... the distance from the surface
of the table to the top edge of the plate should not be more than 2
inches at the very most ... a plate is round or square. If it is
oblong, one has a platter or tray."
 Another way to determine whether a piece is truly
a plate is to turn it upside down onto a flat table. Virtually all parts
of the edge should touch the table without any ruffling or crimping. A
further proviso is that the angle of the sides of the item should be
nearly straight - with no curve on the outer edge. Some plates are very
flat, others (typically those by Northwood) tend to have more steeply
sloped sides. Plates may be collar based or footed. The feet may be
spatula shaped, scroll footed or even dome footed - generally the 2 inch
rule will be overlooked if the plate is footed.
So, that's the basic guideline to follow, but
sometimes it's not clear cut. Is there such a thing as a ruffled plate?
Well, yes, there is. In fact in the old Imperial catalogs they showed an
item that they called a "Grape Plate" - and it was a very low, ruffled
edge piece. It would fit the 2" rule, because it was very low - but it
wouldn't qualify on the "turn it upside down onto a flat table" test!
Neither would a handgrip plate (where one side is curved up) of course.
A great deal of controversy surrounds the
definition - and opinions vary. Peter added his suggestion for the
following plate definition: "a piece with sides that measured either
from its base or, if applicable the top of its feet, rise no more than
2” in a straight plane from the surface it sits on. A piece that has a
handgrip, or a ruffled edge that does not turn up straight (like an ice
cream bowl), but otherwise meets the 2" criteria is likewise considered
a plate".
Wayne added the following observations:
To me, for any item to be a plate it must "NOT" have "Ruffles", 3 in1,
turned up (around the complete diameter) or any type candy rib etc. type
edging. I go along with the 2" rule which applies to a collar base
plate. Footed or dome base plates cannot apply to this 2" rule
obviously. But...a plate is a plate is a plate and NO ruffles.
The "ONLY" exception I have to this is for a
"Hand-Grip" style plate. Why,
because even though it will have 1 or 2 edges turned up, but only
(partially around the diameter of the plate) and has "NO RUFFLES".
Simply put, a plate looks "identical" to the plate
you eat your dinner from!! Hey, do you see any "ruffles" or "turned up"
edges around the complete diameter on your dinner plate??........I
think. NOT!! Go to Wal-Mart and ask for a "Low Ruffled Plate" and see if
the sales clerk thinks you're nuts!
Now, for any item with a "turned up" edge
(completely around the item diameter), commonly known as "ice cream
shape", or any item with "ruffles", "3in1", or any other "wavy" style
edge, the dad gum thing is a "Bowl", I don 't care how low it is. If
this bowl also meets the 2" rule, then we have a "Low Ruffled" bowl, NOT
a plate with ruffles. I emphasize again, "does your dinner plate have
ruffles"?
And Dave added:
There is no such animal as a ruffled plate. The correct terminology
is "crimped plate" as very specifically stated and with pieces
identified as crimped plates in the Imperial Glass Company's 1909
catalog. Once again, the Ostrich effect is rearing (or should I say,
burying) its ugly head.
Also, I recently saw a Fenton crimped edge piece
of carnival glass that, when sitting flat on the table, would not hold
even one teaspoon of soup. I dare anyone to call that a bowl.
We must all remember that the carnival glass
definition of a plate was derived several decades ago with a complete
disregard of the official definition as stated in Webster's dictionary.
We must also remember, that as we progress in this hobby that more and
more is discovered to dis-prove earlier thoughts and we must adapt to
that which is black and white instead of speculation.
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